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Keith Devens .com

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What you are thunders so loudly that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. – Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Daily link icon Thursday, September 2, 2004

Hebrew list markers

What do you think... should I leave the Hebrew list markers (for my linkblog posts), which are visible only in Mozilla, at the expense of having everyone else see plain old numbers instead of my standard square markers? I'm leaving it for the night, at least.

Update: I'm still really mad that they don't allow alternate list markers to be specified. They allow it with fonts, why not list markers?

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Simon Willison (http://simon.incutio.com/) wrote:

Seeing as they degrade nicely in other browsers (I never realised I was missing them in FireFox) I say keep 'em.

∴ Simon Willison | 2-Sep-2004 12:10pm est | http://simon.incutio.com/ | #5462

Revence 27 (http://www.revence27.faithweb.com) wrote:

I've never seen 'em! I'm on IE-by default. Are they what I see replaced by that sickeningly ugly Pilcrow?
Get the ASCII codes for them, and then use it-that wy, I think it'll show up even with IE, because, you know, Microsoft stuff has always supported Hebrew Alphebet (or Aleph, Beth, ...)

∴ Revence 27 | 2-Sep-2004 12:35pm est | http://www.revence27.faithweb.com | #5463

ideoplastos (http://www.ideoplastos.net) wrote:

Use the achewood.com favicon as link markers. Do it.

∴ ideoplastos | 2-Sep-2004 12:45pm est | http://www.ideoplastos.net | #5464

Sparticus (http://iamsparticus.co.uk) wrote:

I love the hebrew. Keep it.

∴ Sparticus | 2-Sep-2004 5:44pm est | http://iamsparticus.co.uk | #5470

Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:

Microsoft stuff has always supported Hebrew Alphebet

No, that's the whole point of this post. Internet Explorer (as well as Opera) don't support Hebrew list markers (or Chinese, etc.). I don't think they support anything beyond the standard 1AaIi HTML 4 list styles.

I'd be interested if anyone could report what Mac browsers do (especially Safari).

Keith | 2-Sep-2004 5:56pm est | http://keithdevens.com/ | #5472

Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:

And Revence... you should use Mozilla so you can check out what I'm talking about (I'd have preferred it if you'd done that before commenting wrongly on it) and also so you can check out how stupid your site looks using it.

Keith | 2-Sep-2004 8:48pm est | http://keithdevens.com/ | #5474

Sparticus (http://iamsparticus.co.uk) wrote:

Firefox, Camino and Safari all display the hebrew, suprisingly enough IE doesn't. Haven't got Opera to check.

∴ Sparticus | 3-Sep-2004 6:12am est | http://iamsparticus.co.uk | #5479

ideoplastos (http://www.ideoplastos.net) wrote:

Did you delete my comment from last night? Won't let me use your computer, deleting my comments... dude, stop being a tight ass.

∴ ideoplastos | 3-Sep-2004 9:14am est | http://www.ideoplastos.net | #5480

Sparticus (http://iamsparticus.co.uk) wrote:

Opera on mac is failing to show up the hebrew.

∴ Sparticus | 3-Sep-2004 12:42pm est | http://iamsparticus.co.uk | #5485

Revence 27 (http://www.revence27.faithweb.com) wrote:

Alright, alright! I see, now. Curse Microsoft! Oh, please. 80% of the stuff on the net is in English. If you really expected to surf some Hebrew, why the hell didn't you get a custom-made browser? Mozilla can do that stuff 'cause they are open source, and those of us who love foreign alphabets coded for them.

I'll download Firefox and have it for keeps, so I can save myself all this.
My site is all attribute-controlled in the stylesheet. So, I may have some stylsheet stuff that looks disarmingly good in IE, but sucks dangerously in Moz. Which leads to ask what the hell the W3 Consortium is doing about these deadly variations among browsers that claim to translate XHTML! Curse Bill! No, kill Bill!

I saw the Hebrew alphabet in Microsoft Word (On the Menu, Insert, Symbol, the look lower in the grid, you'll find Hebrew, Arabic, blah, blah, blah...), which tempted me to think, the whole time, that all Microsoft stuff was Hebrew-friendly.
I don't stand temptation that well, as you can see, do I?

∴ Revence 27 | 3-Sep-2004 1:01pm est | http://www.revence27.faithweb.com | #5486

Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:

How about you actually implement the standard before complaining about the W3C and variations in browsers.

Also, keep in mind there's a difference between supporting Hebrew in the document, and supporting the CSS property for Hebrew list markers.

Keith | 3-Sep-2004 10:22pm est | http://keithdevens.com/ | #5494

Revence 27 (http://www.revence27.faithweb.com) wrote:

Okay, Keith, should I drop to my knees and seek forgiveness from the Divine Devens? Should I pray for pardon and be spared the gross horror of hell? Should I, now, get the next flight to New Jersey, buy some Chinese food along the way, place a lighter under it, and offer it to you as a "burnt offering"? Should I, now, wail "SORRY! SORRY, OH KEITH! AMEN."

Okay. SORRY! SORRY, OH KEITH! AMEN. I know you would have said "Yeah, punk. Go ahead."

Now, aboout implementing the standard,: look, I am hosted by the goddamned FreeServers. The site is free. What they do is put their overhead banner ad, which is the one with the mistakes! Not my coding! You won't see the banner ad there if you check my site out, because I hacked it off with the stylesheet. It's replaced by that big, white space you see up there. Things may look a little different through Mozilla's eyes, because Mozilla is, apparently, too strict to let me get away with what Explorer (the HTML compiler of the millenium) lets me get away with!
The clearest sign of a gross browser is the incapability to think more open mindedly-----to know what the programmer meant, even when he coded a bit wrongly for it. Some people have typing impairements. Like Keith B. Devens!

And, yes, I'm sorry in advance, Keith.

∴ Revence 27 | 4-Sep-2004 1:04pm est | http://www.revence27.faithweb.com | #5498

Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:

Revence. Go away.

Keith | 4-Sep-2004 1:11pm est | http://keithdevens.com/ | #5499

Revence 27 wrote:

GONE!

∴ Revence 27 | 5-Sep-2004 8:56am est | #5508

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