Keith Devens .com

Woo-hoo! Pro-choice!

Seriously, the political angle here is getting old. You're a good programmer, how about something useful for us to munch on?

I write about what I want to write about. I'm not some information gatherer for you

Heck, I'm pro-choice and not shy about it... HOWEVER I do not want to be associated with that kind of ass-clownery. How come it's always the idiots who never keep their mouth shut in debates such as these?

That's what it is, Keith. That is what the pro-life position literally calls for - goverment-enforced childbirth on unwilling pregnant women.

I'm sorry if someone stating a literal truth disturbs you so much.

Women gets raped, asks for an abortion, not allowed sorry.

Sounds fairly forced to me.

That being said the question is a fetus a person. If your pro choice, yes and it would be murder so it's force to enforce a law which is expected by society.

If your pro-choice. It's either not until birth, or not until it's a viable age, or not until it has fairly well developed brain.

Personally I'm of the opinion that early abortions are fine because it's basically an extension of a womens body, but when there is a developed brain it becomes a person so late term abortions should only be allowed under extreme circumstances such as endangering a mothers life (and of course she gets to decide who's more important).

I think that's fairly reasonable as I consider the combination of Brain + Body to be what makes people well... people. Maybe one day we'll figure out what defines consiousness and actually know what we are doing but until then no one really knows whats right.

Other then the authors extreme Pro choice stance the article is fairly balanced and the comments are interesting. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater eh? (pun intended)

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I'm only commenting here to make sure that the words 'rape' and 'abortion' don't show up on my home page. They're staring me in the face every time I open my browser, and it's starting to irritate me.

'Anonymous' and 'Anonymous2', if you feel as though you have enough insight on this matter to respond to Keith's posts, please have enough dignity to indicate who you are in your posts.

The issue is simple.
1) Genetically the fetus is NOT the same as the mother, therefore it is not HER body to do with as she "chooses".
2) The fetus is genetically a living human being, therefore should have the rights of a human being. In other words, a life should NOT be allowed to be snuffed out just because the mother doesn't "want" the baby.

Also,
The gist of the original article would only be valid ONLY IF the act which produced the child (i.e., sex, for those that don't realize) was ALSO government mandated.

I don't have a home page of any sort online and my name is Carl. Didn't really make a difference did it? For some reason perhaps I'm reluctant to give out a home addy lest some ahem... overzelous person decide he got tired of killing doctors and moved on to supporters.

I've been thinking about the subject matter a good deal lately, and I've got mixed feelings. So I'm not rabid pro-life or pro-choice at the moment. Because the issue is so complicated and the definitions of life, consciousness and such are so varied from person to person and religion, I leave it for the individual to make. Last thing I'd want if i was a women is the government dictating my choices.

The issue is never simple:
1. Genetics don't determine humanity to me, consciouses will and sentience does. Until something can "Think" it only has the potential to be a person. (This is of course why we should execute all politicians immediately ). I agree there are some holes in that statement but then again you can say that about any stance.

2. See above

That being said, I wish less women would opt for the more convenient choice (unless its a medical thing) and instead allow the baby to be adopted or raised naturally.

Then again I think we need to mature as society and stop having more kids then we can handle both environmentally and socially. Getting rather crowded on this small planet of ours.

Then again I'm still trying to figure out how most pro-life people also don't mind killing full grown adults. If you can't justify killing under any circumstance, why is it okay to kill even a killer? Right now the execution process costs more then putting a person in jail for life (old stat so that may no longer be accurate). Mind you I'm for the death penalty, though I think the system needs more balance and common sense. Just pointing out a weirdness in logic.

Carl,
To answer your question about the death penalty I would merely point out that the fetus has done no crime, whereas the criminal has. Now, whether or not their crime merits taking their life is another question altogether and therefore irrelevant to the issue of the taking of the life of an innocent.
On a side note, genetics may not "determine" humanity to you but it certainly does in the eyes of the scientist. Also, using your criteria doesn't it follow that a person in a coma wouldn't "qualify" as a human being?